Found 1944 Steel Cent

[Madwest]

Found it in a bag. It sticks strongly to a magnet. It weighs 3.0g. My research says that weight is a bit high.
Anybody got some tips on what to look for to know if it is the real deal?

[Romalae]

It's probably a plated coin; it is doubtfully authentic. Given the profound collectibility of the 1944 Steel Cent and its cousin the 1943 Copper Cent, it is very unlikely that a not-found authentic one would wash up on the shores of circulation today. These two aforementioned varieties are some of the most counterfeited coin specimens ever.

[TXBullion]

Can you get a pic of the whole thing front and back

[Madwest]

I don't doubt counterfeit of some sort. A wrong-planchet 1944 should weigh 2.7g. This one weighs 3.0g.

I wholly reject that it is a plated 1944 brass. It sticks strongly to a magnet and weighs less than a brass 1944. A plated 1944 would not stick to a magnet - not even if the plating was pure Ni.

[henrysmedford]

From --http://web.archive.org/web/20021010175535/http://www.wayneherndon.com/admin/steel1944.htm

Similarly, in 1944 when the Mints switched back to the copper alloy, a few of the steel planchets prepared for 1943-dated cents remained in the system and were inadvertently struck with the 1944 date. Again, remarkably, all three Mints produced errors of this type as at least one has been discovered and authenticated from each Mint. There is second possible explanation for the existence of some or all of the P-mint examples of the 1944 steel cent. In 1944, the Philadelphia Mint used the numerous leftover steel planchets to produce 25 million two-franc coins for recently liberated Belgium. Given the poor quality control that characterized the wartime Philadelphia Mint, it is likely that some of these planchets found their way into a tote filled with cent planchets.

And from -- http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3103.mobile.html#lien_infos_techniques

Country Belgium
Number KM# 133
Year 1944
Value 2 Francs (2 BEF)
Metal Zinc coated Steel
Weight 2.75 g
Diameter 19 mm
Thickness 1.25 mm
Shape Round
Orientation Coin alignment ↑↓
Demonetized yes

[TXBullion]

Wonder if you have something special on your hands

[Madwest]

Here's the whole thing , as best as I can get it.

[slickeast]

Use a magnet and video tape the magnet picking it up.

[Madwest]

Use a magnet and video tape the magnet picking it up.

Uploading to youtube right now (3min remaining for upload). Will post the link shortly.

[TheJonasCollegeFund]

Wishing you luck!

[Madwest]

Ok. The first part of the video is the magnet snapping up a 1943 steel. It is hard to see the date, but it is a run-of-the-mill 1943.
The second part of the video is the magnet snapping up my 1944 (likely counterfeit) steel. I made sure to show the date clearly for the suspect coin.

http://youtu.be/3T8HKC17sAM

I would be beside myself right now if it wasn't for this critter being overweight.

[henrysmedford]

Great info here http://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/2013/01/1944-steel-penny.php

[henrysmedford]

I asked Mike Diamond " bio found here http://www.maddieclashes.com/New_Custom_1.html his thoughts and --

It could be real. The elevated weight and the mushy letters of LIBERTY are a concern, however. It could be a counterfeit strike on a steel disc. It would require careful study.

Mike

In a message dated 3/23/2013 9:55:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, writes:
Good Day -- A member over at real cent.org found a 1944 steel cent see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22586&p=211597#p211597. The weight is off at 3.0 g. any thoughts.


Thanks Joe Henry

[Madwest]

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate your assistance.

I noticed the mushy LIBERTY. I also noticed pitting in the GOD WE area near the coin's rim. There is an error coin superstar in my home town. I might visit his shop next week.

It's hard to stay grounded, but I'm trying to stay in the frame of mind of counterfeit of some sort.

[slickeast]

Thanks for the video.

[Madwest]

After all of the excitement, I went back to the sorter. In the very last cleanout of the final sort bin there was a 1917s.
A top 25 cent ain't a bad consolation prize if the 1944 Steel is fake.

1917s Obverse (Custom).jpg (193.32 KiB) Viewed 2221 times

1917s Reverse (Custom).jpg (185.7 KiB) Viewed 2221 times

[Madwest]

I went to a show today (a lot further than I would normally drive, but I wanted to show the suspect coin around).

2 out of 3 dealers said the coin looked like a cast copy.
The 3rd said it looked like the date had been "tooled."
But all 3 said probably fake of some sort. They say the only way to know for sure is to have it authenticated.

One of the 3 suggested a show next month where there will be authenticators on site that will do a verbal for free. I'll likely go if I can make the time.

[LooseChange]

2 out of 3 dealers said the coin looked like a cast copy.
The 3rd said it looked like the date had been "tooled."
But all 3 said fake.

My first thinking was the date. In the first picture the second "4" doesn't have the same relief of the other numbers. I know it is likely on older cents for the fourth number to be more worn than the first 3 (Your 1917 S for example), but the 1944 doesn't look more worn....it just looks like less material was there in the first place, very suspect.

I'm not an expert, and far from it, but making a prediction I'm thinking its a bad casting and the second 4 was just a little more shallow. This theory also flows nicely with the coin being heavier than a '43 and slightly thicker.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

[Madwest]

I bet that according to this "Patented" authentication technology, I have the real thing!

Who thinks I should order one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-Copper-194 ... 460ddc7c3e

Don't be fooled (Small).jpg (109.4 KiB) Viewed 2022 times

Official Use Guide (Small).jpg (63.02 KiB) Viewed 2022 times

[stlouiscoin]

hahaha, that's a good laugh! what are they charging for the magnet, $20 plus shipping?

[BCD11]

Hope the authenticators give you some good news next month!

[Madwest]

Hope the authenticators give you some good news next month!

I got verbals from 2 different authenticators/graders at the Central States Numismatic Society 74th Anniversary Convention.
Both said without a doubt that it is NOT authentic. They each concluded that it is a struck counterfeit.

It was an interesting afternoon nonetheless.

Before I got word from the authenticators, I first stopped at the Heritage Auction booth. They got very excited. It was one of their reps that put me in touch with the first authenticator (with PCGS).

I got to speak to the second authenticator by showing the '44 to a dealer who once owned a legitimate steel 1944 (a 'D' mint). That dealer got me an audience with ANACS.

I had a full pocket of FRN and had every intention of spending over $2,500, but the prices weren't right on the things I was looking for. Many of the dealers were very competitive on most things but the few that had stuff I was looking for were high. No big deal. I am very patient and will either eventually get it at my target price or I won't get it. I fed my need by buying two ship wreck coins - 800 B.C. Silver Egyptian coins recovered from shallow water near Israel.

I'll put this 1944 in one of my coin albums and let somebody in the far future go through the exercise I've gone through. Who knows, maybe the ending will change between now and then. It did for these folks (http://news.yahoo.com/1913-nickel-fetches-more-3-1m-auction-175140077.html). They were told by experts that their million dollar nickel was fake. Then, they sold it for $3M+.

[uthminsta]

Found it in a bag. It sticks strongly to a magnet.

This part - the two statements together - still baffles me. How did it even end up in there?
Absolutely amazing find.

[scyther]

Found it in a bag. It sticks strongly to a magnet.

This part - the two statements together - still baffles me. How did it even end up in there?
Absolutely amazing find.

I've found 6 steel US pennies and 2 steel Canadians in bags, along with 2 pure nickel Canadian nickels. They make it through every once in a while.

[Madwest]

Found it in a bag. It sticks strongly to a magnet.

This part - the two statements together - still baffles me. How did it even end up in there?
Absolutely amazing find.

I've found 6 steel US pennies and 2 steel Canadians in bags, along with 2 pure nickel Canadian nickels. They make it through every once in a while.

Likewise.
I've found a number of 1943 steel (less than 10) and I find loads of modern Canadian plus quite a number of 1C Euro. I don't think some machines even have a magnet filter.