johnbrickner wrote:OK, it's a given we all know the value of PMs as insurance, as hard, sound money. So what if a generation or two of western culture human beings are distracted, plugged in, entertained and otherwise kept un-aware of such?
I mean, cash is already being killed. People are digitizing and depositing checks via Smart Phone and my sister swears she'll be able to do digitize and deposit cash with serial numbers as long as she promises to destroy them when she is done. And oh, I owe you $10.45 for lunch and I send it to you by my phone, while you put it on your card. So is it any wonder there are a generation or two who have no idea what a 50 cent piece is?
Soooo . . . what if (however highly unlikely) the western powers leaders are able to keep it together long enough for a generation or two, to not see PM and PM mining stock prices go up as their insurance value increases from events and fiscal misbehavior? Like we have been seeing for several years already!
I think at some point, PMs won't have to be manipulated as there won't be enough demand once we're gone for a generation or two regardless or how long history says otherwise, or how serious the events that are supposed to trigger it as in the past.
Except for those in the East that may keep the collective memory. Or will they? Perhaps it will only take a bit longer.
InfleXion wrote:This is definitely a valid concern for any stacker.
With silver in particular, some wonder about whether so much of it could end up in landfills that there isn't enough for it to be used as money. Although that argument is nullified by divisibility from a monetary sense, it does apply in the practical sense somewhat in that A) the price of silver would have to rise substantially for there to be enough in circulation for every day use by the population, in which case you'd be carrying around very tiny pieces, or else B) if the price did not rise then yes there wouldn't be enough to go around because you'd need a large piece for a small unit of measure.
While "B" defies market equilibrium, we've seen that markets can be controlled for a time, but markets are always seeking equilibrium. It's like gravity, you can stand on one leg for a really long time, with ease at first even, but eventually gravity will beat you. Eventually, market manipulators will be outlasted by free market forces unless there is no market. How's that for reassuring!
Some have speculated it may be the goal of the elite to completely remove silver from existence by crushing the price and dumping it in landfills. Were that to be successful, it makes a good case to have some gold too.
Can it happen? Stranger things have. Will it happen? I doubt it.
The reason metals are money isn't because of decree or widespread support, both of which are helpful if not necessary, but not the cause which is because the intrinsic properties of metals are best suited to perform the function of money out of anything we know in existence. Fungible, divisible, durable, portable, and a store of wealth. Metals have been all of these things 100% of the time ever since the first human set eyes on them, and some attributes of those even transcend the human equation. Value only exists in our minds afterall. That they are elements, created only by supernovas (and probably the big bang) makes them truly unique and truly finite in the world and the universe. The universe is eventually going to run out of hydrogen atoms in the very distant future from all the nuclear fusion of stars living out their lives. That's not to say whether or not there will be a shortage outside our planet, but that's all I'm concerned about for the moment.
My point is that even if silver disappeared from consciousness, eventually, if humans ever go back to a less technological way of life, or alternatively if some choose not to go along with whatever technological advances are around the corner, the metal will fulfill its role as money in the event that people have a surplus of some kind and need a medium of exchange. Whether that will be of use to each individual person will depend on their circumstance.
Gold to me seems such a vital part of the human psyche though, I don't think it could ever be forgotten. It inspires something.
I also have a hard time seeing the current monetary system lasting another 10 years, let alone generations. Exponents move fast at the tail end.
neilgin1 wrote:Flex, without seeming to be kissing your hindquarters, there is no way you can tell me, you don't write and/or analyze professionally.
InfleXion wrote: This is definitely a valid concern for any stacker.
Eventually, market manipulators will be outlasted by free market forces unless there is no market. How's that for reassuring!
The reason metals are money isn't because of decree or widespread support, both of which are helpful if not necessary, but not the cause which is because the intrinsic properties of metals are best suited to perform the function of money out of anything we know in existence. Fungible, divisible, durable, portable, and a store of wealth. Metals have been all of these things 100% of the time ever since the first human set eyes on them, and some attributes of those even transcend the human equation.
Value only exists in our minds after all.
Gold to me seems such a vital part of the human psyche though, I don't think it could ever be forgotten. It inspires something.
68Camaro wrote: to keep a smile on my face and give some hope to my children, I have to put my faith and interest in something higher.
knibloe wrote:68Camaro wrote: to keep a smile on my face and give some hope to my children, I have to put my faith and interest in something higher.
Amen to that!!
"If ye are prepared ye shall not fear. " Preparation comes in many forms. The best preparation is spiritual. Once you spiritual house is in order, you can work on preparations in other areas. We cannot change a lot of things in this world, but we can trust God. If our trust is in Him, nothing else matters.
Treetop wrote: Ive heard ideas like "they" wont let us profit from our silver and gold, but I doubt they care in this context. Rather they just want to ensure such investments are rare so we dont internally trigger something that forces their hand. If the empire itself is betting against the dollar they have a much harder time keeping things running until the ball is ready to drop. If this is true at all, then once things go past a certain line there is no real reason to control metals at all. Doesnt mean it wouldnt happen but it wouldnt hinder what seems to me to be the main goals of the empire assuring survival whether from real or imagined threats.
johnbrickner wrote:In a debt economy like we have money is a future claim on resources and services. If the critical mass of human psyche no longer recognizes PMs as an alternative to economic mis-behavior and there is basically no avenue to obtain them anyway . . . would this not be a key to being able to perpetuate the current monetary system?
Call me paranoid.
InfleXion wrote:johnbrickner wrote:In a debt economy like we have money is a future claim on resources and services. If the critical mass of human psyche no longer recognizes PMs as an alternative to economic mis-behavior and there is basically no avenue to obtain them anyway . . . would this not be a key to being able to perpetuate the current monetary system?
Call me paranoid.
While I completely agree that this is a key to perpetuate the current monetary system, I don't believe for a second that it is achievable. Gold didn't become precious because people were told that it was. It just is. Telling people it isn't might work to some degree, but I don't think it can undermine human instinct.
NHsorter wrote:Don't want to divert the thread, but does anyone here have any concern about scientific advances that might lead to the creation of gold, or the mining of gold(or other PMs) from space.
NHsorter wrote:Don't want to divert the thread, but does anyone here have any concern about scientific advances that might lead to the creation of gold, or the mining of gold(or other PMs) from space. I know that right now it is not economical or feasible, but the exponential nature of science and physics that we have seen does sometimes give me pause. Who is to say that in 20 years, it is not a completely different game and now there is 10X or 100X more gold available?
Totally unrelated, but have any of you read up on CRISPR? It's just a recent example of a crazy breakthrough that could have tremendous implications in a very short time frame if it is what is being advertised. On one hand it is cool imagining all of the cool things that could be done. But it is equally or more scary in other respects.
Interesting times..... Seems like evolution (including evolution of money!) had been pretty slow paced throughout history. But I feel as though we are entering an era of accelerated evolution, whether organic or synthetic. Simultaneously intriguing and scary.
Or.... I just drank one too many of these delicious Sixpoint Resin IIPA's and this is just a bunch of drooling poppycock. Carry on brothers!
InfleXion wrote:Asteroids contain mainly iridium, which I had considered investing in prior to learning that. I don't see the amount of precious metals coming out of asteroids being significant to markets unless we've got hordes of nanobots out mining the solar system.
Treetop wrote:InfleXion wrote:Asteroids contain mainly iridium, which I had considered investing in prior to learning that. I don't see the amount of precious metals coming out of asteroids being significant to markets unless we've got hordes of nanobots out mining the solar system.
Pretty sure you mis understood this or were hearing about a specific asteroid. You might have heard the iridium we mine on earth is from asteroids originally. None of earths stayed in its crust, its expected back in earths molten era it moved somewhere to earths core.
Basically all metals we trade will be obsolete when/if asteroid mining becomes technologically possible. honestly this is very likely to happen in the next few decades, we already landed the first craft on a moving comet just recently. We dont need nano bots that Im aware of. This is the main reason I like silver more although it could readily suffer the same fate. Its just cheap enough the first few missions it might be left behind.
One M class asteroid being looked at to be the first target is one of the smallest known in the M-class and is expected to have 20 trillion in metals on it. 8 trillion of that in platinum. Another looked at had an estimated 100k tons of platinum and 10k tonnes of gold. Each one is a bit different. The first company to do this will likely become the wealthiest company on earth as soon as they get their payload home. Already there is a push for laws that a company mining such a body owns the materials it collects.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /15628831/
or this
http://mashable.com/2012/04/26/planetar ... trillions/
On a related note does anyone here honestly believe the US has no ability currently to get humans to space while we borrow rides from russia? I dont, I expect when we retired the shuttle it was because we had its replacement already.
InfleXion wrote: I don't see the infrastructure being in place for well beyond 20 years from now. Sure, the government could do it and subsidize the cost, but still no real point unless it's profitable unless there is an outright industrial metal shortage.
............ If we end up in John Titor's future, there won't even be satellite capabilities.
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