Fed Reserve rolled pennies/coppers removed?

[Rubbadubba]

I purchased a $25 box of Fed rolled pennies this week at the bank. That's 50 rolls of 50 cents each! What are the odds that I'd be able to sort out only 28 coppers of those 2500? Has anyone else had a similar experience with Fed wrapped pennies? Has the Fed started sorting and removing copper cents from circulation? In the past I've normally found 12 to 18 per roll (25-30%)regardless of who wrapped. Hard to believe an entire box just happened to be essentially completely zinc pennies by chance. Geographically I live near Boston in the event that the regional branches of the Fed are doing there own thing. Does anyone out there know anything about such possible Fed/Mint/Treasury activities and plans?

[JerrySpringer]

It is possible you got the tailings of someone's zinc dump. A few years ago I used to get skunked on the plastic wrapped cent rolls. Curiously, the few copper ones I'd find in the rolls would happen to be 1982 dates. I surmised I was getting someone's zinc dump. Try another source bank for cents.

[m21221]

Yep, I've had a least a dozen Stringer boxes completely free of copper in the last month. Something is going on... because the odds of that happening by chance is 0%. I normally get 25%. I now pull a roll and check first and if it copper free I don't bother with the rest of the box.

[Copper Catcher]

If you are located in the eastern US I have the answer....

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client.

Brinks has a machine called a Super Sorter that they developed back in the 1990s that does this in short order....Brinks handles more than $3.0 billion worth of coin each year!

They started processing several weeks ago and it is now starting to show up and you will see a lot more skunk boxes for quite some time.

There is more to the story but this is the short answer....

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

This sort of thing has happened before.

[tinhorn]

If you are located in the eastern US I have the answer....

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client. Brinks has a machine called a Super Sorter that they developed back in the 1990s that does this in short order....Brinks handles more than $3.0 billion worth of coin each year!

They started processing several weeks ago and it is now starting to show up and you will see a lot more skunk boxes for quite some time.

There is more to the story but this is the short answer....

Dude, I'm in the eastern US, and I've just invested more money than I should have in sorting and processing equipment. I'd sure like to know the "more to the story" part.

[henrysmedford]

If you are located in the eastern US I have the answer....

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client. Brinks has a machine called a Super Sorter that they developed back in the 1990s that does this in short order....Brinks handles more than $3.0 billion worth of coin each year!

They started processing several weeks ago and it is now starting to show up and you will see a lot more skunk boxes for quite some time.

There is more to the story but this is the short answer....

Dude, I'm in the eastern US, and I've just invested more money than I should have in sorting and processing equipment. I'd sure like to know the "more to the story" part.

Is this the sorter--

United States Patent 4,898,564
Gunn , et al. February 6, 1990
Apparatus for coin sorting and counting

Abstract

This is a coin sorting and counting apparatus for providing very accurate high throughput processing of heterogeneous coin mixtures. A rotating drum having parallel annular channels, each of which has equally spaced counterbores located around it is rotated within a vacuum plenum. A novel sensor coil contructed as a balanced transformer of four coils having rectangular geometries is used, in conjuction with a dual frequency excitation signal, to detect at least three electronic signatures for each coin, the signatures are detected by separating the frequency components in the output of the sensor coil and obtaining a peak value for the excursion of the high frequency response caused by passage of the coin, and width values corresponding to the time the excursion of the signal was above a predetermined threshold for both the high and low frequency responsive channels. Based on the denomination determined, appropriate signals are inserted into a coin ejection memory queue which is shifted in synchronism with rotation of the drum. The memory queue is constructed so that an appropriate air valve will be activated when the detected coin is over an appropriate one of a plurality of coin receiving stations. A set of lag sensors are used downstream from the coin ejecting air valves to confirm proper ejection of the coins. Separate calibration values for the signature signals are acquired and saved for each counterbore location to offset the effects of variations in circuitry on a channel-by-channel basis and slight mechanical irregularities in movement of the counterbores past the sensor array.
Inventors: Gunn; William L. (Atlanta, GA), Heath, Jr.; William D. (Breman, GA), Mantovani; John C. (Lilburn, GA)
Assignee: Brink's Incorporated (Darien, CT)

From--http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4898564
If not try --http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=Gunn%3B+William+L&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PALL

Also found this--
07 LC 96 2683
S. R. 559
- 1 -
Senate Resolution 559
By: Senator Heath of the 31st
A RESOLUTION
1 Commending William L. Gunn, president of Brinks Engineering, on the occasion of his
2 retirement; and for other purposes.
3 WHEREAS, the designers, engineers, draftsmen, machinists, technicians, and assemblers of
4 Brinks Engineering have looked up to William L. Gunn as an unparalleled mentor and leader
5 throughout his more than 25 years of phenomenal service to the company; and
6 WHEREAS, Brinks, Inc., is currently the single largest provider of coin wrapping services
7 in the country, and since Mr. Gunn began employment in 1981, the company has
8 dramatically increased production from approximately 10 million wraps of coin per month
9 to an astounding rate of over 50 million wraps per month; and
10 WHEREAS, after he obtained his Bachelor of Science degree in mechanical engineering
11 from the Georgia Institute of Technology in 1967, Mr. Gunn jo ined ATL Machine
12 Corporation, where he was promoted to vice president in 1972, and was made a partner in
13 the company in 1978; and
14 WHEREAS, during his tenure at ATL Machine Corporation, he participated in the
15 development of various dairy processing machines and the design of a high speed coin
16 wrapping machine known as the ATL; and he successfully negotiated and completed
17 contracts for various other coin processing equipment for the United States Mint and for
18 MARTA; and
19 WHEREAS, in 1981, Mr. Gunn joined Brinks, Inc., who had purchased the patent rights to
20 the ATL coin wrapper and assisted in the formation of the engineering division of Brinks ,
21 Inc.; and since that time, more than 100 ATL coin wrapping machine s have been produced
22 and installed in Brinks facilities across the U.S., in Canada, and in Santiago, Chile; and
07 LC 96 2683
S. R. 559
- 2 -
1 WHEREAS, Brinks Engineering has also conceived, designed, and produced a high speed,
2 state of the art coin counter called the Supersorter, a machine that sorts and counts coins at
3 a much higher output than any other machine on the market; and
4 WHEREAS, Mr. Gunn is registered as an inventor and coinventor for ten United States
5 patents as well as a number of international patents for original innovations in coin
6 processing machinery and other industries; and
7 WHEREAS, as he has commanded the esteem of several generations of inventors, engineers,
8 employees, and colle agues, it is fitting an proper that we applaud such a resourceful and
9 accomplished citizen of the State of Georgia.
10 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE SENATE that the members of this body
11 recognize William L. Gunn for his outstanding achievements in the realms of management
12 and engineering, congratulate him on the occasion of his retirement from Brinks, Inc., and
13 extend to him their sincerest best wishes for a healthy and fulfilling retirement.
14 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Secretary of the Senate is authorized and directed
15 to transmit an appropriate copy of this resolution to William L. Gunn.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

Yep.. dat's the one. I hate when they fire those things up.

Dude, I'm in the eastern US, and I've just invested more money than I should have in sorting and processing equipment. I'd sure like to know the "more to the story" part.

Dude.. better sort fast!

[natsb88]

Just wanted to add that the "Fed" does not sort or wrap coins, private companies like Brinks do.

[tractorman]

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client.

Order? Client?

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

Brinks has a machine called a Super Sorter that they developed back in the 1990s that does this in short order....Brinks handles more than $3.0 billion worth of coin each year!

Darn.. that is even more than me!

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

When this sort of thing occurs.. as it did a couple of years ago.. you need to sort sorting your boxes with a scale. You just put the box of pennies on the scale and if it weighs 14.1 pounds it is a dud box.. you don't even have to crack the seal. Just put it in your outgoing stack. This will really speed up your sorting.

[m21221]

Makes since, I knew it had to be something like this. Thanks for the info.

[Cu Later]

cathing another wave of shields in the nw. time to get a scale

[knibloe]

If you are located in the eastern US I have the answer....

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client.

Forget the info on the sorter, I want to know more about this order and who the client is. Will this be a long term thing? How far do you think the impact will be seen. I live in western, NY

[knibloe]

Also, next time someone has this kind of info, how about a heads up so that we can stock up to avoid a prolonged drought.

[JerrySpringer]

If you are located in the eastern US I have the answer....

There was a recent order put in with Brinks and Coinstar to pull and sort out all the 95% copper pennies for a certain client.

Brinks has a machine called a Super Sorter that they developed back in the 1990s that does this in short order....Brinks handles more than $3.0 billion worth of coin each year!

They started processing several weeks ago and it is now starting to show up and you will see a lot more skunk boxes for quite some time.

There is more to the story but this is the short answer....

Ouch. Time to hit up the banks for CWRs more.

When this sort of thing occurs.. as it did a couple of years ago.. you need to sort sorting your boxes with a scale. You just put the box of pennies on the scale and if it weighs 14.1 pounds it is a dud box.. you don't even have to crack the seal. Just put it in your outgoing stack. This will really speed up your sorting.

Yep. My box of shield cents weighs 14 lbs. 1 oz. I will keep this number at hand. BTW, there was a chart someone posted a link to a while back that shows how the weight of cent boxes change with Cu percentage. By my calculations, a box of pure pre-1982 pennies would weigh about 17 lbs. 4 oz. Might get down to weighing boxes and eliminating the ones that are in the lower percentiles weight range. Time is of the essence.

[willy13]

I have gotten all new pennies, but never all mixed date zincs.

[tractorman]

No one wants to tell what they know? A little Googling might provide some insight. For example ...

This is a post from Goldismoney.info a PM forum.....there is a big time copper guy that was in the copper sorting biz prior to the govt ban.....he has some insight as to why Brinks boxes offer so many skunks. This was posted Monday 8-4-08 at about 1:00PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mined Games
But someone is doing some large scale sorting around here.

I got a call on July 3rd from the coin manager at the Denver Brinks location. He said, "I've got $80,000 in COPPER pennies sitting on the dock, and I was wondering if you wanted to buy them."

Short version: Brinks has upgraded their equipment nationally and has started to sort out all the copper pennies from the coins which they process on behalf of Coinstar. Coinstar sees a future market to resell these for a profit while at the same time cutting back on the amount of coins that they have to deposit with the bank (and therefore incur banking fees).

After a couple weeks of phone calls I ended up speaking for some time with the Chief Counsel at the US Mint. Basically, the ban on melting/export is still firmly in place. Despite rumors that Jackson Metals in Ohio was purchasing these coins from Coinstar and melting them under "special permit" from the US Mint, I was assured that all applications for special permit have been declined. The mint's chief attorney told me that the ban on melting/export/"treating" would continue until the following two conditions were met:

1. The US Congress grants approval for the mint to make cents and nickels out of an alloy of their choosing (They favor a bill introduced in the Senate recently by Wayne Allard -- #1986 if I remember correctly).

2. They MUST be able to make a penny for less than $0.01. Even if they switch alloys they are not convinced - given the current inflationary environment - that another alloy would bring the cost to under $0.01.

If both of these conditions were met they would lift the ban as soon as they were producing the new alloyed coins.

I probably shouldn't be sharing so many trade secrets, but as far as I can tell it is game over for my company, Pincher Processing, because Brinks, by upgrading their equipment, just cut me out of the chain.

BTW... coinstar is currently sorting out 3,000,000 copper cents PER DAY (5 days/week) in conjunction with Brinks nationally.

One more thing: The reason they wanted to sell me that $80,000 stack of copper cents is because their (Coinstar's) inventory is getting too large while waiting for the ban to be lifted. They wanted me to tie up capital in the waiting game. Coinstar does not "deposit" the copper cents, but they are held by Brinks as "inventory" on their balance sheet.

[knibloe]

Thanks for the post. As long as the ban is still in place, they can only sort and hold a finite number of pennies. Once they have sorted enough and have maxed out their capital, they will have to start turning them back in.

The bad news is that as soon as the ban is lifted it is game over almost immediately.

[68Camaro]

Yep - didn't know all this background info til now, but it surprises me not one bit. Get 'em while you can!

[tractorman]

So I wonder what prompted the machines to start up again? Are the penny/nickle compositions set to change and its just not common knowledge yet? Hmmmmm...

[henrysmedford]

From--http://www.brinksinc.com/journalArchive/Brinks_Journal_Issue11.pdf

[highroller4321]

Well I suppose I should shed some light on the topic....

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know about so information I have come across.

A very wealthy guy.from North Carolina. who I guess is in the investment business has made a deal with coinstar to buy $5,000,000 FACE VALUE in copper pennies. Yes, that is 1,666.66 TONS! He has made a contract with them for them to supply him with $5 MILLION face value over the next 2 years. (Yes, I said FIVE MILLION DOLLARS FACE VALUE)

Besides none of us getting the order the biggest kick in the pants is that he is only paying coinstar $65,000 over face value. 1.013x face.

I believe Brinks will be doing the sorting for coinstar. I am not sure if the investor has to pay brinks or not. Brinks has a machine called a supersorter that can sort out copper....they just have to turn the switch on.

I am not sure where they were going to start but I guess they have started in NC. Copper Catcher I'm sure will chime in and verify this...

The time is going to be coming sooner than we think that percentages will be under 10%!

[68Camaro]

1.3% fee seems way low. They can't even transport for that. I believe they charge far more than that just for 5M in zincs, not to mention the sorting. You sure about the fee?

As to the volume, even 5Mil face - one time - is a drop in the bucket, but if this starts a trend, then the supply WILL dry up.