Selling my silver for bitcoins

[mortarman]

Going to sell half my stash (about $150 face) for bitcoins, currently about $17.25:1 BTC. Don't know too much about bitcoins at this point, but they've experienced exponential growth for the last 2 months in their exchange rates (see: https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/market/charts/). The long term prospects of the underlying principles IMHO are sound, but there may be some short term issues, like the fedgov not liking total anonymity.

It's a gamble, for sure. But folks are making money this very moment, most of it on mere currency appreciation. The main selling point for me is the fact that they are limited to a total of 21 million bitcoins, so it's inherently deflationary. As the currency appreciates further, it will be subdivided into milli and micro-bitcoins, with a present maximum of 8 decimal places.

What's going to be the next safe haven asset after the ultimate "safe haven asset", US Treasuries, collapse? This seems to be a good alternative: non-inflationary, not controlled (besides the built in controls for rates of growth) or regulated, isn't presently manipulated by central banks the world over, or has any concentrated short positions (yet). I guess someone could ultimately hack the encryption, or an emp could wipe out my wallet.dat file that will contain all my bitcoins, but I think it's worth the risk. Hell if it grows at this rate for even a little while longer, we'd be sitting alright.

Here's a few sites I've found the most useful:

http://www.weusecoins.com

http://forum.bitcoin.org

Edit: These two articles are the most convincing I've read so far: http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-t ... ngularity/ and http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/29/why-im- ... o-bitcoin/

[Treetop]

youve got brass balls.

[coppernicus]

Have you actually bought any? It appears that the site is shut down.

[shinnosuke]

OK, this is the 2nd time in 2 days I have seen bitcoins mentioned. I have been reading the FAQs and am presently trying to relieve the pressure that is building in my cranium. Plus, it really hurts the ol' ego to realize how useless my knowledge base is when computer-related topics comes up. I'm an analog guy living in a digital world. Please, somebody, anybody, who understands this stuff, check it out and give us a bitcoins 101 lesson.

I am really so lost that my normal "if it sounds too good to be true..." meter has malfunctioned.

[theo]

"What BitCoin is: An agreement amongst a community of people to use 21 million secure mathematical tokens--"bitcoins"--as money, like traditional African and Asian societies used the money cowry. Unlike the money cowry:

•there will never be more bitcoins
•they are impossible to counterfeit
•they can be divided into as small of pieces as you want
•and they can be transferred instantly across great distances via a digital connection such as the internet.

This is accomplished by the use of powerful cryptography many times stronger than that used by banks. Instead of simply being "sent" coins have to be cryptographically signed over from one entity to another, essentially putting a lock and key on each token so that bitcoins can be securely backed up in multiple places, and so that copying doesn't increase the amount you own."

Theoretically it sounds interesting, but its still currency created from nothing and backed by nothing. I don't understand the technical aspects of this either, but I am suspicious about the security of this system and the credibility of those who started it. It is also dependant on the internet being free from government regulations and control; a prospect which is questionable at best. Anyway, it looks like the site is already having problems. . . .

"2011-6-04 - Suspending BMBTC/PPUSD Trades
BMBTC/PPUSD trades are suspended until further notice. The email issues along with fraudulent behavior has created a tremendous backlog of 'Unconfirmed' BMBTC/PPUSD trades. We must suspend new orders for BMBTC/PPUSD until we can resolve these trades and bring the situation under control. We appreciate your patience."

Honestly, this sounds like a classic ponzi scheme.

[OneBiteAtATime]

I wonder how many oz's of silver (90% and 40% US) were spent on the pet rock in the 70's? EDIT: I just realized I sound like a jerk. IMHO, this is something you get back out of before the FRN is worthless, I don't have the guts to chase this rabbit for very long.

[NickelExpress]

However if you did not want to actually put your own money into it, you could always set up your computer to farm bitcons. I've only looked into them for maybe 30 minutes top so my info is pretty limited. However from what i understand, you can set up your computer and it will be used to perform calculations and each time a batch is done you will send in the data and be given a bitcon. It uses your computers graphics card since they many many times faster than a CPU at performing the calculations. Your video card however will be run at 100 percent, apparently depending on your video card (something fast but efficient and cheapish) you can farm for a decent profit. You will have a higher electrical bill but obviously that is just meant to be part of the cost. Food for thought.

[Rodebaugh]

•there will never be more bitcoins......yeah right, people that say never seem to get bit in the ass alot.
•they are impossible to counterfeit......Sure they can be duplicated, we put a man on the moon in the 60's.
•they can be divided into as small of pieces as you want.......I can do this with silver
•and they can be transferred instantly across great distances via a digital connection such as the internet.......Is this a good thing?

I don't think bitcoins meet my needs at this time.

[psi]

you could always set up your computer to farm bitcons.

I could see giving that a try but I would not actually purchase these, same as 'digital gold' or anything else issued by a body I see no reason to trust. The only non-monetary form of digital trading I'm really interested in is files for files.

[68Camaro]

Don't know anything about it, but it's fiat. The unique thing about it is the distribution mechanism, which is interesting. Security of it unverified. But - no matter what, it's still fiat...

Is there honestly some doubt that we put a man on the moon? Are you a flat-earther also?... .

[whatsnext]

So you buy digital tokens and use them or hope they go up. Nothing stays unknown online.

[Rodebaugh]

Don't know anything about it, but it's fiat. The unique thing about it is the distribution mechanism, which is interesting. Security of it unverified. But - no matter what, it's still fiat...

Is there honestly some doubt that we put a man on the moon? Are you a flat-earther also?... .

oh sorry Rich...duped = duplictaed. Post edited

[68Camaro]

Don't know anything about it, but it's fiat. The unique thing about it is the distribution mechanism, which is interesting. Security of it unverified. But - no matter what, it's still fiat...

Is there honestly some doubt that we put a man on the moon? Are you a flat-earther also?... .

oh sorry Rich...duped = duplictaed. Post edited

[Treetop]

These bitcoins were going for 1 bitcoin per 7 bucks only about 2 weeks ago!!! they are up to 17 bucks per bitcoin. Perhaps they will keep going up, but I find the whole thing bizarre. My computer crashes to often for me to trust an entirely digital money.

[barrytrot]

These bitcoins were going for 1 bitcoin per 7 bucks only about 2 weeks ago!!! they are up to 17 bucks per bitcoin. Perhaps they will keep going up, but I find the whole thing bizarre. My computer crashes to often for me to trust an entirely digital money.

Anyone buying more than an "experimental amount" of BitCoins is playing with FIRE.

Let's look at some facts:

- 100% of Bitcoins are generated FOR FREE.

- It is not easy to even figure out how to use them. 99% of their information requires way more than the average bear to decipher.

- One of the primary reasons people are interested is "they are going up in value". That's not a good time to buy an investment. A good time is when FUNDAMENTALLY the investment is sound regardless of the current movement, which is always controlled primarily by traders and not investors.


So: Buy what is a small amount for you and have fun. You may even make a nice turn around profit. Great! But doing more than a small amount (for you) will create a lot of what in the stock world are called "bag holders".


For anyone bullish on the Bitcoin please give me 1 reason that the price should increase in the future? I brain stormed for hours and could not think of even one reason. And don't say, "because there are only X bit coins ever available". Ok, that's fine, I will take that as "valid" but only after you can't generate them for free any more. So wait until there is no way to generate free ones and then you can use that argument.

[Treetop]

i agree barrytrot... Those are my thoughts to. Lots of people make money with speculation... but its dangerous when thats all it is for all involved..... it can work or fail entirely....

[barrytrot]

Also one thing to remember: Bit coins are a zero sum game. In other words 100% of the value has been added by the current buyers. So for any money to be earned an equal amount of money must be lost.

Keep that in mind and ask yourself if you feel lucky.

[psi]

OK, I'm running the program on one PC, will try on the one with the better GPU as well. Will see how it works out.

[marhjan]

Just a couple of quick points - Bitcoins are NOT really generated for free. The people who are generating more than tiny fractional pieces of Bitcoins (ie the ones getting 50 Bitcoins at a pop) have invested at a bare minimum about $2000 USD to build a mining rig, and in many cases upwards of $10,000 USD for their server farms. I WISH WISH WISH I would have done this 18 months ago when 10,000 Bitcoins were spent on a large pizza!!! yes, really... really! At that time Bitcoins were trading for $0.0005 (20 for 1 cent) per Bitcoin. Those who invested early and held are getting rich right now - whether the money is 'real' or not is fairly irrelevant. There are some people (including myself) who sold the majority of our positions this weekend and took very healthy profits - some will be converted to silver/gold others to pay rent etc. Others believe Bitcoins are 'going to the moon' as it were and say they won't sell til Bitcoins hit $1000+. I happen to think that's a little pie in the sky but then, six months ago when I got involved $5 and even $1.00 seemed pretty absurd also.

Are Bitcoins a bubble waiting to pop short term? Probably, almost certainly - but some people are making substantial money, there have been millionaires created over the past two weeks (wish I were one lol...) and the market for these things is currently quite vibrant. Could it go poof??? sure but then what couldn't?? I would certainly NOT advocate putting one's life savings into Bitcoin - although those who did over a year ago are quite thrilled with their decision. so??? DYODD, but you might want to consider getting involved in a small way. My Paypal account is certainly several thousand $ larger because I did.

[mortarman]

"2011-6-04 - Suspending BMBTC/PPUSD Trades
BMBTC/PPUSD trades are suspended until further notice. The email issues along with fraudulent behavior has created a tremendous backlog of 'Unconfirmed' BMBTC/PPUSD trades. We must suspend new orders for BMBTC/PPUSD until we can resolve these trades and bring the situation under control. We appreciate your patience."

What is shut down is the ability for the exchange to process any payments through paypal. There are still other avenues available, and other exchanges, by which to purchase them.

I'm young enough to risk a bit for the potential profit, and am hoping for the best. I know I'd kick myself if I didn't at least throw in a little and it grew significantly in the future. And, the DoD, under the new SecDef, Leon Panetta (God help us), looks awful willing to eliminate any hope of a pension before I'm 65 (the merits of this can be discussed later). So I intend to take advantage of any viable opportunity for me to get some in the bank.

And Lord knows I'd stack with any significant profits... who doesn't want to turn $150 in roosevelts into $1500 or $15000 of mercs, walkers, and morgans?

[Treetop]

well good luck mortarman.... If enough people agree with you, you may do well though. Ive got major doubts though myself. Looks like pure speculation to me.

[gettin copper]

Hi bud, Idk anything about bitcoin, but here is a 900 post thread about bitcoin on my poker related website. Might find some good info here

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/bu ... y-1011408/

[barrytrot]

Just a couple of quick points - Bitcoins are NOT really generated for free. The people who are generating more than tiny fractional pieces of Bitcoins (ie the ones getting 50 Bitcoins at a pop) have invested at a bare minimum about $2000 USD to build a mining rig, and in many cases upwards of $10,000 USD for their server farms.

The fact that people paid for a server or something has nothing to do with the value of the Bitcoin itself which was given to them FOR FREE.

[barrytrot]

Are Bitcoins a bubble waiting to pop short term? Probably, almost certainly - but some people are making substantial money, there have been millionaires created over the past two weeks (wish I were one lol...) and the market for these things is currently quite vibrant. Could it go poof??? sure but then what couldn't??

Any market that has fundamental value cannot go poof. It can go up and down but if there is fundamental value it cannot go to zero. Even in a cashless/post apocalyptic society bread, eggs, goats, etc. all have value. Tons of value in that scenario. And if we are all super rich those things have value as well.

Also if millionaires have been created it means others have paid for that to happen by buying their coins. It's a zero sum game, so the millionaires who have cashed out have left others holding onto the bag. Some of those may pass it on as well, but eventually the guys at the end get burned quite badly.

The market for people wanting value-less currency can not expand indefinitely. It is impossible.

[barrytrot]

One final thought (for now): Read the "Millionaire Next Door". You will see that the portion of "instant millionaires" is so tiny compared to those that worked harder and smarter for several years.

Very few people will become wealthy as a result of Bitcoins.

Many many people will become and have become wealthy as a result of solid investments such as silver, some stocks, commodities, and business ventures.

Even the much mailigned network marketing has more millionaires made each month than Bitcoins will ever make. NOTE: I'm a fan of network marketing, although not in it myself. It's one of the few places where the limit is only the limit you set for yourself! Regular "jobs" do not give you that.