Recyclers try to defraud US Mint with counterfeit coins

[highroller4321]

One last comment, I'm guessing that most of the coins are perfectly fine. It is just easier and cheaper to turn them in under the mutilated coin program than it is to count them and put them back into circulation.

This is actually not the case. They make separate good machine countable coin shipments as well. The coins generally range from very mutilated to only slightly mutilated, but the good machine countable comes get sent it separately.

[knibloe]

One last comment, I'm guessing that most of the coins are perfectly fine. It is just easier and cheaper to turn them in under the mutilated coin program than it is to count them and put them back into circulation.

This is actually not the case. They make separate good machine countable coin shipments as well. The coins generally range from very mutilated to only slightly mutilated, but the good machine countable comes get sent it separately.

Thanks for the feedback.

[natsb88]

7/25/16

The Justice Department has quietly settled a lawsuit seeking millions of dollars from companies the agency had accused of importing counterfeit U.S. coins from China and fooling the U.S. Mint into paying nearly full value for them.

A federal district judge in Philadelphia dismissed the case in a July 21 order that said the parties in the case, America Naha Inc. and Wealthy Max Ltd., had reached an agreement with the agency.

Click for more.

[highroller4321]

7/25/16

The Justice Department has quietly settled a lawsuit seeking millions of dollars from companies the agency had accused of importing counterfeit U.S. coins from China and fooling the U.S. Mint into paying nearly full value for them.

A federal district judge in Philadelphia dismissed the case in a July 21 order that said the parties in the case, America Naha Inc. and Wealthy Max Ltd., had reached an agreement with the agency.

Click for more.

Truth finally comes out!!!!!!

All the cases aren't over yet though.

[hobo finds]

http://www.amm.com/Article/3581574/Serious-change.html

[wolvesdad]

Cool read. Aluminum huh? They needed more aluminum and so they hand sorted our zorba(I missed it, is that car trash?)

[hobo finds]

yep what is left after the shredder, plastic, foam, fabric and some metal. I think they sort thru the fluff and remove all the metal.

[highroller4321]

yep what is left after the shredder, plastic, foam, fabric and some metal. I think they sort thru the fluff and remove all the metal.

They crush the material and then have different methods of pulling out all of the different metals. Steel, Aluminum, plastic, ect all get pulled and separated so they can be recycled. As part of this system they also come across a lot of coins that have been left in the cars or other material. These coins get pulled and then separated by country. Once separated they get sold to wholesalers, who through a system of channels and people, return the coins to the country of origin to be redeemed or recycled.

[hobo finds]

This article mentions the Portland Mint!! http://www.recyclinginternational.com/r ... unked-cars

[hobo finds]

US Mint damaged coin redemption program coming back! http://www.scrapmonster.com/news/us-min ... am/1/66117 The U.S. Mint announced its intention to resume the mutilated coin redemption program after a three year suspension following concerns of fraud.

[highroller4321]

US Mint damaged coin redemption program coming back! http://www.scrapmonster.com/news/us-min ... am/1/66117 The U.S. Mint announced its intention to resume the mutilated coin redemption program after a three year suspension following concerns of fraud.

My comments are the article:

#1: ISRI did very little in helping with anything. They spoke with senators but got nowhere. The program possible reopening had nothing to do with them.

#2: The only updated rates are very pennies and ONLY if you separate out the copper first. The mint has never accepted fused coins.

#3: The new rules suggest nothing about getting law enforcement involved. There never was an issue in the first place.

[Recyclersteve]

This article mentions the Portland Mint!! http://www.recyclinginternational.com/r ... unked-cars

There is something odd about this article that I am questioning...

The photo in this article shows a person's hand full of mutilated coins which supposedly came from one or more cars that were being junked. Yet I don't see a single coin in decent shape in his hand. I would think that some coins that have been sitting in cars (even for years) would still look ok.

So do you think they were purposely hand-picking the ugly ones or was this supposed to be representative of a typical sample of coins pulled from cars near the ends of their lives?

[highroller4321]

This article mentions the Portland Mint!! http://www.recyclinginternational.com/r ... unked-cars

There is something odd about this article that I am questioning...

The photo in this article shows a person's hand full of mutilated coins which supposedly came from one or more cars that were being junked. Yet I don't see a single coin in decent shape in his hand. I would think that some coins that have been sitting in cars (even for years) would still look ok.

So do you think they were purposely hand-picking the ugly ones or was this supposed to be representative of a typical sample of coins pulled from cars near the ends of their lives?

The picture is a random picture and not related to the article.


The cars going through a scrap recycling process that chops up the cars. The coins are usually bent/damaged during this process! A few coins sneak by undamaged.

[Recyclersteve]

Gotcha- thx.

[hobo finds]

I find it amazing that they can even separate out these coins by country. The car shredders here in the United States are they able to sort out this coin? Or is the coin shipped out overseas in the fluff of what's left over from a shredded car that we can not process here?

[JadeDragon]

How does every scrap car sent to china contain $900 in mutilated coins and no mutilated coins are found in scrap cars sent to india? Why did the mint need to ramp up their melt program? http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/0 ... f_54m.html

[highroller4321]

How does every scrap car sent to china contain $900 in mutilated coins and no mutilated coins are found in scrap cars sent to india? Why did the mint need to ramp up their melt program? http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/0 ... f_54m.html

More false and misleading information and extremely poorly written article that is missing over 75% of the facts that are needed.

[hobo finds]

Looks like the program is back! http://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/u ... ification/

https://www.usmint.gov/news/consumer-al ... in-program

Looks like you have to jump thru some hoops to get this done, especially if you are a business...

[highroller4321]

Looks like the program is back! http://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/u ... ification/

https://www.usmint.gov/news/consumer-al ... in-program

Looks like you have to jump thru some hoops to get this done, especially if you are a business...

After 3.5 years of waiting they really didn't make any changes at all.

[Recyclersteve]

they don't have some way of testing them when received from the guys who are sending them? High dollar comparitors?

It wouldn't matter. Lets say I make a "dime" that has the exact same composition. Then I mutilate it beyond good recognition. I could make 88% profit margin because it only costs $.012 to make a "dime".

If you can get 10 cents for a counterfeit (same composition as a normal coin) dime that costs you 1.2 cents to make, your profit is a whopping 733%, not 88%. 100 divided by 12 and then subtract the basis of 1.

[knibloe]

they don't have some way of testing them when received from the guys who are sending them? High dollar comparitors?

It wouldn't matter. Lets say I make a "dime" that has the exact same composition. Then I mutilate it beyond good recognition. I could make 88% profit margin because it only costs $.012 to make a "dime".

If you can get 10 cents for a counterfeit (same composition as a normal coin) dime that costs you 1.2 cents to make, your profit is a whopping 733%, not 88%. 100 divided by 12 and then subtract the basis of 1.

I didn't say the "profit" was 88%. I said that the "profit margin" was 88%. Please see below.

Profit Margin:
A measure of how well a company controls its costs. It is calculated by dividing a company's profit by its revenues and expressing the result as a percentage. The higher the profit margin is, the better the company is thought to control costs. Investors use the profit margin to compare companies in the same industry and well as between industries to determine which are the most profitable. Farlex Financial Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All Rights Reserved

If the fake dime costs sells for a $.10 than revenue is $.10 It it costs $0.12 to make, the profit is $0.88. .088 (profit) divided by Revenue $.10 = 88% profit margin!!

[highroller4321]

they don't have some way of testing them when received from the guys who are sending them? High dollar comparitors?

It wouldn't matter. Lets say I make a "dime" that has the exact same composition. Then I mutilate it beyond good recognition. I could make 88% profit margin because it only costs $.012 to make a "dime".

If you can get 10 cents for a counterfeit (same composition as a normal coin) dime that costs you 1.2 cents to make, your profit is a whopping 733%, not 88%. 100 divided by 12 and then subtract the basis of 1.

You have to factor in the labor to make the correct alloy, labor and cost to press into a dime shape, labor and cost to press to make like a dime, labor and cost to then mutilated, labor and cost to transport to the foundry, ect

It simply is not economical....hence why there aren't any counterfeit mutilated coins.

[hobo finds]

I can not find there buy back rates for these coins?

[Recyclersteve]

I can not find there buy back rates for these coins?

Hey Hobo:

Check out the posting by AGgressive Metal titled Commonwealth C&C Buy List that was posted on 1/11/18 and is updated periodically. That should have very detailed info. You might want to bookmark that thread because it can be tough to find when the prices haven't been updated recently.

[hobo finds]

https://www.usmint.gov/news/consumer-al ... in-program

Looks like you now have to sort coins by type. Cents, Nickles, Dimes, Quarters & Half Dollars. Also separate Dollar coins by type.

And program on hold again.