Coffee?

[Hawkeye]

I have some questions about long term storage of coffee. My wife is a big coffee drinker, but usually just uses a can of Folgers or whatever. She's not overly picky. I will drink an occasional cup, but I thought that it would be something good to have. I've looked around for information online, but can't seem to find any consensus. Would it be accurate to say that coffee will last a long time, assuming you don't care if tastes a little stale? And what would be the best way to store coffee (I probably don't care enough about coffee to store green coffee beans and roast them myself)? Would it eventually go bad, or would the taste just deteriorate over time? And, apart from airtight containers with oxygen absorbers, would it be better to store a metal can, plastic can, or vacuum packed brick? I know very little about coffee, so any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

[thedrifter]

I think the tast will just go stale and loss it's flavor, as it loses it flavor it might pick up whatever flavors are around it. The best way to store in addition to any of the methods you suggested (airtight containers with oxygen absorbers, would it be better to store a metal can, plastic can, or vacuum packed brick) is to put to containers in the freezer. My girlfriend and I bought 10 1 lb bags of Starbucks on clearence at the grocery store about 3 months ago and still fine tast and all. Sadly we are nearly finished with that. Also whole beans last longer than ground, and roasted beans stores better than green (because the beens are dry).

[Nickelless]

My favorite coffee is Cafe Bustelo, which comes in a sealed steel can that has to be opened with a can opener--none of those foil flaps. I've bought a few cans:




(Not all of those cans are full. ) I buy this coffee for $3.38 a can at Walmart. I buy about 4 to 6 cans of coffee per payday and between work and home go through about a can and a half to two cans per week, so I've slowly built up a surplus.

[Mossy]

"Emergency supply" - Instant coffee. For when you gotta have the caffiene.

[Nickelless]

"Emergency supply" - Instant coffee. For when you gotta have the caffiene.

Or whole-bean coffee--you can chew on the beans. I've done this many times. A year ago at Christmas, my fiancee and I were driving from her parents' place to mine, about a four-hour drive, and it was near-blizzard conditions outside, so to try to hold a cup of coffee while driving would've been dangerous. So I started munching on a bag of coffee beans that her sister had given me. Since I'm a pretty hard-core coffee drinker (about four pots a day), it took about an hour and a half before I got a caffeine buzz!

I haven't yet found a brand of instant coffee that I'd tolerate on a long-term basis. Most of them are either too muddy-tasting, too acidic or just plain bad. Plus, at $3.38 a can, Cafe Bustelo is pretty darn cheap, but good. Anyone else here drink it?

[rickygee]

You can check this website for some ideas: http://www.stilltasty.com/ They say a couple of years for unopened ground coffee and a year for instant. IMHO it will last unopened considerably longer.

[68Camaro]

I haven't yet found a brand of instant coffee that I'd tolerate on a long-term basis. Most of them are either too muddy-tasting, too acidic or just plain bad. Plus, at $3.38 a can, Cafe Bustelo is pretty darn cheap, but good. Anyone else here drink it?

I had some instant Cafe Bustelo in my "hurricane" box as emergency coffee, but finally pitched it after 5 years. Need to resupply that in some form; I need an instant for such times, no matter what else I store. Never tried the ground - I'll do that sometime. I normally keep vac packed whole beans and grind them. Bustelo only offers whole bean in their supreme line and I can get others that are good for the same price as the supreme.

[Mossy]

Do you have something that does not rely on electricity for grinding the beans?

[68Camaro]

Do you have something that does not rely on electricity for grinding the beans?

I have an old hand grinder that my grandparents used daily, which was part of their pleasant morning rituals when I was little and visiting them, though for my daily use I use an electric.

[frugalcanuck]

does anyone know where i can get an Ethiopian coffie bean that I can plant to try and grow some? it doesnt have to be Ethiopian but I would like a very high quality bean. I think this would be the best barter item in a multi-month SHTF situation.

[Nickelless]

does anyone know where i can get an Ethiopian coffie bean that I can plant to try and grow some? it doesnt have to be Ethiopian but I would like a very high quality bean. I think this would be the best barter item in a multi-month SHTF situation.

Is the climate hospitable enough where you are for growing coffee?

[HPMBTT]

This question is very easy to answer. You need to be getting WHOLE beans (not ground coffee), then storing them with very little air in metal cans, and then storing all of your coffee cans in a vacuum/sealed container, such as the 5 gallon containers with a good airtight seal. This is also clearly covered on survivalblog, of course, which I am a big fan of for several years. Yes, you could buy the vacuum (square) bricks of coffee grinds that they sell now; the problem is that it is ground coffee and not whole beans; they will not maintain their freshness as long. Unfortunately, finding whole beans in cans on the open market is very difficult. Anyway, this will be the best way to do long-term storage for coffee. You can even throw in some instant stuff in one of the cans if you absolutely have to. Coffee will be worth it's weight in gold if SHTF, plus will make an excellent barter item, especially if someone doesn't want to take your 90% silver.

[Nickelless]

This question is very easy to answer. You need to be getting WHOLE beans (not ground coffee), then storing them with very little air in metal cans, and then storing all of your coffee cans in a vacuum/sealed container, such as the 5 gallon containers with a good airtight seal. This is also clearly covered on survivalblog, of course, which I am a big fan of for several years. Yes, you could buy the vacuum (square) bricks of coffee grinds that they sell now; the problem is that it is ground coffee and not whole beans; they will not maintain their freshness as long. Unfortunately, finding whole beans in cans on the open market is very difficult. Anyway, this will be the best way to do long-term storage for coffee. You can even throw in some instant stuff in one of the cans if you absolutely have to. Coffee will be worth it's weight in gold if SHTF, plus will make an excellent barter item, especially if someone doesn't want to take your 90% silver.

Cafe Bustelo comes in metal cans that you need a can opener to open, so I don't think freshness will be an issue--it's going to be pretty darn hard for critters to puncture the can and ruin the vacuum seal. The coffee will stay fresh until the can is opened precisely because it's vacuum-sealed. How long will whole-bean coffee have been sitting there before it's vacuum-sealed? I'll take my chances with the Cafe Bustelo staying fresh until I open the can:




Speaking of which, I'm down to three cases of coffee at home and half a case at work, so I'd better stock up!

[HPMBTT]

Not to offend you, but I think you're missing the point here. ANY coffee will stay fresh for a longer period of time if it's vacuum-packed (ground, beans, or instant). I am specifically referring to the simple fact that beans hold their potency and flavor LONGER than ground coffee PERIOD, with all else being equal. You stated that the cans with coffee grounds are vacuum-packed in their existing cans; yes, but again, it's still only ground coffee, which will lose its potency/flavor quicker than beans (conservative estimate 2-3 times quicker). So, if you want the best of both worlds and have the longest possible shelf life for your stored coffee, then you need to buy beans AND do your own vacuum-packing of those beans in cans at home. If it was me, I would first vacuum-pack the actual retail bag(s) itself (or another bag of your choice), then cram as much as you can in any size leftover aluminum coffee cans (or equivalent), then vacuum-pack the cans too (throw in some silica gel desiccant while you're at it too).

This is also covered in detail in the 'Rawles Gets you Ready' Preparedness course, as well as in articles on his blog (survivalblog.com); use the search feature. One more thing to consider: if the existing partial vacuum-seal of those ground coffee cans ever breaks even slightly, say goodbye to your grounds (rodents, as well as simple air getting to it over time). I still wouldn't trust the seal in a store-bought ground coffee can anyway, but that's me, as I tend to be rather conservative. Those square coffee 'bricks' that you can buy would actually have a better vacuum-packed seal versus the store-bought cans, so one could also go this route too; again, these will not maintain their freshness as long as beans will.

Hope this helps. And remember, any kind of coffee storage is better than none.

[Nickelless]

HPMBTT, there are two separate issues here--duplication of effort and diminishing returns. The flavor of the ground coffee in the vacuum-sealed steel cans has nowhere to go, and unless and until air can get into the can, what factors will diminish its flavor? Let's say I get non-vacuum-packed beans and vacuum-pack those at home--how long have they been exposed to some level of oxygen by virtue of not being vacuum-sealed during the shipping and retail processes? I could have beans that have been sitting there in a non-vacuum-sealed bag for an indefinite period and then I wonder why even after I vacuum-seal them myself that they don't taste as fresh--whereas if the coffee is vacuum-sealed at the point of processing, despite the fact that the coffee is ground rather than whole-bean, the exposure to oxygen is cut off. Further vacuum-sealing an already-vacuum-sealed can at home is redundant and wasted effort. Unless and until the vacuum seal on the metal can is compromised, it will remain vacuum-sealed.

Let's look at this another way--if various dehydrated or freeze-dried food items in vacuum-sealed #10 cans have 20- to 30-year shelf lives if the cans are kept unopened and in a cool place, since those items would probably be processed to a greater degree than ground coffee would be, why would ground coffee have any shorter of a shelf life if it's kept vacuum-sealed--and not just vacuum-sealed with one of those flimsy little foil flaps, but in a can that requires a can opener? If the can is already vacuum-sealed and it takes a can opener to break the vacuum seal, then vacuum-sealing an already vacuum-sealed all-steel can (not just steel top and bottom with a cardboard-type body) is going to be a totally wasted effort. I'm not being a hard-butt just to make a philosophical point, I'm just saying that I really can't see where you're extending the shelf life of your food items any further by trying to duplicate efforts that don't need to be duplicated, but you could use the time that you're spending on unnecessary duplication to do other things.

I'm not writing all of this just to argue about the shelf life of canned coffee grounds, I just don't want any newbie preppers to read this thread and get the idea that there have to be so many levels of redundancy in food storage that they decide it isn't worth it and don't start in the first place. There comes a point at which you can't do any more to extend the shelf life or integrity of packaging, and if you can do what you need to do with half the packaging or effort, you can get twice as much done. If new preppers think this is so much harder than it really should be, they'll stop prepping.

[68Camaro]

Let's say I get non-vacuum-packed beans and vacuum-pack those at home--how long have they been exposed to some level of oxygen by virtue of not being vacuum-sealed during the shipping and retail processes. I could have beans that have been sitting there in a non-vacuum-sealed bag for an indefinite period and then I wonder why even after I vacuum-seal them myself that they don't taste as fresh--

Not to discourage prepping, but we've got to be honest here as well - for those of us that really like our coffee - and because we will have to actually drink this stuff we're setting aside, my experience and notes

1) Oxygen is the enemy, and for ground coffee, because of the huge multiplication in surface area that occurs by grinding, the reaction processes occur very quickly. Fully exposed ground coffee loses its best flavor in an hour. (Which is why my wife and I have separate coffee makers - she preps her maker at night and it sits there all night - I can't do that.)

2) Whole bean coffee is best bought in the special foil-lined bags with one-way breather valves. Coffee beans continue to react for a time after roasting, and even when vacuum packed the CO2 is produced by the beans will relieve the pressure difference, which can makes the bag softer again. This doesn't mean that the bag has lost its seal. These will keep the beans reasonable for at least a year. They will degrade in flavor after that, and when they can no longer be tolerated is somewhat subjective, but for me, that's the limit of how much coffee I can store and rotate. I can keep other extra coffee around, for the ultimate SHTF, when I will be happy to drink anything, but eventually it will be thrown away if the SDHTF.

3) Once the container is opened, whole bean coffee will stay fresher far longer.

4) I have no idea how long vacuum packed coffee in the can will last while sealed, but even when ground I'm willing to bet it will last - well enough - for several years - enough so that I will store some like this for >1 year use in non-rotated storage. I have failed to find whole bean coffee in cans for any reasonable price; the only brand I found like that was obscenely priced.

[Nickelless]

Just curious, 68Camaro, what brands of coffee do you and your wife prefer? One thing I like about Cafe Bustelo is that it's strong, dark and bitter (insert joke here:mrgreen:). I haven't shopped around for any brands of whole-bean coffee since I've found a brand I really like, but another thing about the all-steel cans that Cafe Bustelo comes in is that the cans can come in handy for storing just about anything after the coffee is gone. I go through 1.5 to 2 cans of coffee a week between work and home, not counting the coffee I drink at Denny's or IHOP after work as well.

[68Camaro]

Just curious, 68Camaro, what brands of coffee do you and your wife prefer? One thing I like about Cafe Bustelo is that it's strong, dark and bitter (insert joke here:mrgreen:). I haven't shopped around for any brands of whole-bean coffee since I've found a brand I really like, but another thing about the all-steel cans that Cafe Bustelo comes in is that the cans can come in handy for storing just about anything after the coffee is gone. I go through 1.5 to 2 cans of coffee a week between work and home, not counting the coffee I drink at Denny's or IHOP after work as well.

I'm going to try some of your Bustelo. I might have in the past but I can't remember for sure. I've tried a couple other Cuban roasts and not been thrilled, but I'm up for another try.

I love strong coffee. I normally buy French Roast, Espresso Roast, or (a bit softer) Italian Roast. I brew it with a heavy hand, and/or actually make espresso. But I'm not into bitter - if that's what you really mean, rather than strong - to me bitter (nothing personal, if this is really what you like) is a flaw in the roasting process, or over-aged coffee, or over-brewed coffee (in an old-fashioned high-pressure espresso steamer this is too long of a shot which means too tight of a tamp). I buy Starbucks when it's on sale. Otherwise I buy BJs (if this doesn't mean anything to you, it's a COSTCO or Sam's Club type of place) whole bean, which is excellent.

As to my wife, she doesn't really like coffee, she likes coffee flavored creamer... Thus why we each make our own coffee, normally.

[68Camaro]

Just curious, 68Camaro, what brands of coffee do you and your wife prefer? One thing I like about Cafe Bustelo is that it's strong, dark and bitter (insert joke here:mrgreen:). I haven't shopped around for any brands of whole-bean coffee since I've found a brand I really like, but another thing about the all-steel cans that Cafe Bustelo comes in is that the cans can come in handy for storing just about anything after the coffee is gone. I go through 1.5 to 2 cans of coffee a week between work and home, not counting the coffee I drink at Denny's or IHOP after work as well.

Report on findings so far...

Further to this, while out at lunch I stopped by Publix (closer than Wal-Mart, looking for selection here rather than price) and examined the latest in coffee offerings. As you might expect here, due to our significant and growing Hispanic population with Cuban and Puerto Rican overtones, more and more Cuban-style coffees are being displayed now. I hadn't looked in awhile, and there was quite the selection - more even than non-Cuban. A number of them (most, maybe) are roasted and ground here in Florida, including Bustelo, if I'm not mistaken. There were well over a dozen different brands - I lost count. I do like the Bustelo can, but I looked to the left and realized that the same 10 oz size is offered in the metallized vacuum brick at a significantly lower price. 2.99 for the brick vs 4.29 for the can. (I know you can get it cheaper at Wal-Mart, but I suppose that would also apply to the brick.) Now I would like a can or two for casual storage - they serve many purposes - but I'm not willing to pay a buck thirty for the can alone!

So I got a brick of Bustelo to test. Then I look at the rest, and I decided to also get a brick of the store brand Publix espresso grind. Publix has a reputation for offering really stellar high-quality store-brand products which are usually the name brands (you just don't know for sure which) that are packaged in their Publix label. The Publix brand was only $2.49 for 10 oz. We'll see how they compare, to each other and to the 2-3x price whole bean stuff I normally drink. Starbucks whole bean, if not on sale, would be $6.85 for the same amount. BJs whole bean would be maybe the same as a really good sale at Starbucks - I think BJs is $17.99 for 40 oz, so $4.5 for 10z.

[68Camaro]

Checked BJs today. They sell Bustelo in a 4-10oz brick pack for 11.59. And I had the price wrong on BJs whole bean. Their organic sumatra, good stuff, is 15.99 for 40 oz. Their columbian french roast (what I most have) is $13.99 for 40oz. Just a bit more than brick bustelo, and less than the cans.

[franklin]

68:
Did you ever try Starbuck's Arabian Mocca Sanani when they used to carry it? I think it was the epitome of flavor.

[68Camaro]

68:
Did you ever try Starbuck's Arabian Mocca Sanani when they used to carry it? I think it was the epitome of flavor.

Missed that one... Maybe they'll bring it back sometime

[68Camaro]

Bustelo...

Opened it this morning. It's decent, I could drink it. Wife (in her diluted brew) liked it. Compared to my usual whole bean fresh grinds which are also 20-60% higher in price, I found it a bit "muddy", with a detectable harsh (but not intolerable) overtone (perhaps your bitterness, Nickelless), and a bit less flavor. Not sure it's my best value coffee, but its good to know that it's available and drinkable in a pinch. After finishing this I'm looking forward to opening the Publix brand to see if it might actually be Bustelo in disguise, or a reasonable copy, at an even lower price.

[Nickelless]

Glad you find it decent, 68. Let me know how it compares to the Publix brand. My fiancee is actually allergic to caffeine, so I'm the only one between us who will be partaking of the Bustelo. My brothers and one of their girlfriends came from out of state a few months ago and I brewed up a batch for them, and they really liked it. Personally, I can't stand most "major" brands--I detest Maxwell House, I'll tolerate Folgers if I have to, and beyond those two I can't think of other brands I've bought in the past few years. I think I remember trying Hills Brothers and liking it, but I'd have to revisit it to give a definite yea-or-nay.

[68Camaro]

Glad you find it decent, 68. Let me know how it compares to the Publix brand. My fiancee is actually allergic to caffeine, so I'm the only one between us who will be partaking of the Bustelo. My brothers and one of their girlfriends came from out of state a few months ago and I brewed up a batch for them, and they really liked it. Personally, I can't stand most "major" brands--I detest Maxwell House, I'll tolerate Folgers if I have to, and beyond those two I can't think of other brands I've bought in the past few years. I think I remember trying Hills Brothers and liking it, but I'd have to revisit it to give a definite yea-or-nay.

Agree with you on those major brands. My parents used to drink them but as a kid when I went to my grandparents for the summer and had their ground beans (at the time there wasn't much choice, don't recall what they ground but I think it was 8 o'clock brand whole bean), when I got back I could hardly drink the folgers etc. I don't know how they manage to muck them up, but they doesn't taste anything remotely like the better roasts.